Ask the Wizard:

Casino table games (in general)

See also questions I've answered about dealer errors and misdeals.

In Hold Em poker, does not burning cards affect the odds? Does burning cards affect the odds and game at all? - Jimmy from Canberra, Australia

Burning cards does not affect the odds in any game, unless you are counting cards in blackjack. Nov. 22, 2005

Me and my girlfriend go to the casino often and play Pai Gow poker. I was wondering if it was statistically better for us to each play half our money, or one of us to play with it all, or are they identical odds? - Beau B from Marysville, WA

The odds are the same. However, it will be less volatile for both of you to play at half the bet size. Oct. 18, 2005

Every casino has some kind of limits to protect itself from losing more than they are comfortable with. However, on most tables, the maximum is much less than it is in the high-limit area. The reason for this has nothing to do with protecting the casino against Martingale players. Any casino manager worth his weight in salt knows betting systems always loses in the long run. I asked an executive with a major Las Vegas casino, who wishes to remain anonymous, why a casino would refuse a $10,000 in the main casino when they would accept it in the high-limit room. He said a casino manager only has so many employees he truly trusts. He prefers the big action to be under the watch of those people. Sept. 25, 2005

Casino "comps" are supposed to be based on average bet x hours played x house edge (or something close to this). Why do they record your buy-in, your re-buys and the amount you color out? None of these should affect your comps. Is it truly theoretical loss or does actual loss(or win) come into play? -- Dr. Tom from Youngstown

P.S. Your site is terrific and thanks for restarting the "Ask the Wizard" feature.

Thanks for the kind words. I asked a pit manager this question and he first agreed that comps are generally based on the product of average bet, hours played, and the house edge. The reason that buy-ins are recorded are to adhere to government regulations. There is different paperwork that must be filled out when buy-ins reach the $3,000 and $10,000 levels. Sept. 11, 2005

Recently I was watching an episode of the new "reality" show, The Casino. In one scene, the show featured a "high-roller" playing, I believe, blackjack. Apparently this gentleman hit a rather bad losing streak because as he started to lose more and more, he would tear up the cards! I would have thought this a severe breach of etiquette, if not some actual gaming commission regulation, but when asked to stop, he was insulted that they would ask him! Is this sort of thing generally tolerated and I've just never seen it, or is this guy just used to being allowed to get away with that sort of thing because he's losing tons of money, or something else entirely?

Baccarat (at the big tables) is the only casino game in which players are allowed to damage the cards. An explanation I heard is that Asian players bend the cards anyway as they slowly peak at them so that they only use each card once. So as long as they are replacing cards after one usage, they may as well let the players do anything with them. And being able to identify cards is of little value to baccarat players anyway because the dealer doesn't take a hole card as in blackjack, and the player has no choice as to whether to hit or stand. However, there are also gaming regulations that stipulate that the tapes must show all the cards should there be a dispute, which can't happen if the player tears them up first. But in the show you mention, the player didn't know this and I think both parties handled it badly, which led to the hard feelings that the show captured. Had I been the casino manager, I would have explained what I just explained to you and then asked the player to lay the card on the table before ripping it into tiny pieces.

On a related note yours truly will be on The Casino sometime this season. The story is some college students try to parlay $1,000 into $5,000 as quickly as possible. They seek my advice on how to achieve this goal. July 11, 2005

I read your article entitled Marketing New Casino Games, and I am a bit discouraged because I just invented a new game and I am actually thinking of marketing it. In your article you mentioned that new table games are rented out to casinos for about $300 to $500 per table per month. I thought that there is big money in this business if you're fortunate enough to invent a really good game. I was told that Derek Webb, the guy who invented 3-card poker made millions from the game. Is this not true?

Truly top games, like Three Card Poker, can get up to $1,500 to $2,000 per month, from what I hear. I don't know exactly how much Webb made, but whatever it was, he had to spend a lot of it on lawyers fees defending the game. There is an article about Webb and Three Card Poker in the August 2004 issue of Playboy. March 10, 2005

I read about how your Ties Win Blackjack is on field trial in Laughlin, Nevada. What kind of permit is required and how much did it cost?

A new game trial period permit was required. This is opposed to a "variation" permit, which is less expensive. For a new game, the cost is $3,000; I had to fill out lots of forms, including an employment and residence history going back 20 years. The waiting time was six months, which was shorter than what I was expecting. March 10, 2005

I'd like to how much does a casino poker chips weigh and better yet do you know where is the best place you can purchase poker chips that feel and sound (when you drop them) are as close to the real deal as possible?

The standard is 11.5 grams. Casino-quality chips are made of a clay composite. Most poker chips sets are the same weight but the material is not as high quality and feels more like plastic. If you really want the best you could go to a casino and purchase a large quantity of $1 craps/poker chips from the cage at face value. If the casino changes the style, or goes the way of the dodo bird completely, the chips should go up in value. However, for most recreational purposes there are always lots of sets available on eBay for about $50 for a 500-chip set. If you do get generic chips I would recommend true Paulson chips (there are many imitations), which are the same quality as casino chips. However, Paulson no longer makes generic chips, so the price will be significantly higher. If the price pushes $1 a chip, which it often does, I would just get actual casino chips instead. Jan. 16, 2005

Dear Wizard, You advised a previous poster how one can learn to shuffle poker chips (Aug 25, 2003). Becuase of your instruction, my shuffling abilities give me a strong edge (my poker skill, on the other hand, is another story...). I just want to give a few extra tips...

1. Try starting with a stack of 6 chips instead of 10. Even those lacking any dexterity (like me) will have an easier time getting the feel of it.
2. It is much harder to practice on a hard table. One cannot as easily get one's fingers underneath the stack as on a felt table. If you don't have access to a casino table (other than in the casino itself), practice on something soft, such as a mousepad or even a folded newspaper.
3. Warm-up your hands before shuffling (especially if you are new at it). Shuffling puts your fingers in an odd position. It takes a while for them to get use to it.
4. Learn to use both hands. It becomes much tougher when using your weaker hand, but it makes you look twice as intimidating when you show your fellow players that you are good with either hand.

Thanks again for the great site! -John

Thanks, I never thought to try with my left hand. Dec. 20, 2004

On a recent Travel Channel show about Las Vegas whales, they surprised me with the statement that casinos sometimes offer loss discounts to whales. In other words, the whale plays on credit, and are charged only a percentage of their total losses at the end of a visit. Does this make it possible to set up a positive-expectation game? Would betting systems start to make sense in this context?

Yes, this is true. It is not unusual for "whales" to get a 10% rebate on losses. In my opinion, this is a very risky offer to make and a sharp player could easily abuse it and gain an advantage. The kind of player who would make an ideal recipient of this offer is one who grinds out a lot of play in a high house edge game. The kind of player who could best exploit this offer is one who plays a low house edge game, for a short time, and with a wide range of bet size. It sounds paradoxical but under this deal the player must lose to gain any benefit. Thus, the player should set a high winning goal and relatively low losing goal. Ignoring the house edge for the sake of example, if the winning marker was $1,000,000 and the losing marker was $100,000 then the probability of success is 1/11, as I show in a later question. The expected value after the 10% rebate is (1/11)*$1,000,000 + (10/11)*(0.9*-100,000) = +$9,091. A good strategy to achieve a high winning goal quickly would be something like an anti-martingale, or anything where you bet more after you win. Nov. 28, 2004

Can you use a strategy card at all table games?

Yes. I have never heard of a player being refused permission to use one. Oct. 25, 2004

How is the spread determined on any given table game? Example, a $5 minimum Blackjack table may have a table maximum of $200. Why?

The casinos like to corral their bettors according to how much they bet. One reason for this is, the higher limit tables have fewer players so the big bettors get in more hands per hour. Another reason is that, it is said players like to be around other players of similar bet size. If a player wanted to bet $1,000 at a $5 table it might make other $5 players at that table feel nervous or uncomfortable. A third reason is, it is a preventative measure against cheating. Oct. 25, 2004

Are there any $100,000 chips? If these exist what hotel in Las Vegas would use them?

There is a similar question asked in "Ask Barney: An Insider's Guide to Las Vegas" by Barney Vinson. He says there is a $10 million chip on display in the London Club high limit room at the Aladdin. However, I agree with Barney that it is probably more about bragging rights and has never actually been bet. In another question Barney says most major casinos keep special chips in the vault up to denominations of $100,000, in case they get an especially high roller. Oct. 8, 2004

In Las Vegas the majority of the casinos I've played in require a $100 blackjack bet for 4 hours daily to get a room comped. I've calculated that playing with S17,RSA,DOA,LSR assuming 100 hands per hour it is costing me $120 per day if I play basic strategy. Is there another game that I would lose less if I played? I'm mainly concerned with the cost of Pai Gow if I never bank playing $100 a hand 4 hours a day. However, I thought you might know of another game it would be even cheaper for me to play. Thanks, Jay F.

The rule of thumb when it comes to comps is that the casinos give back some percentage, usually one-third. So if your goal is to get the room with as little expected loss as possible then whatever game offers the lowest house edge is what you should play. You will probably earn that room faster and with less bankroll volatility playing pai gow or pai gow poker. However, the house edge is higher so your expected loss will be greater than in blackjack. In my opinion, you should play whatever you would play if there were no comps at all. Then consider comps as icing on the cake. Sept. 30, 2004

Can you tell me the traditional Las Vegas colors for $1,000, $5,000, & $10,000 chips? - Ray F.

To answer your question I turned to Barney Vinson, author of "Ask Barney: An Insider's Guide to Las Vegas". He replied, "The colors of large denomination checks vary from casino to casino, just so they stand out more. At Caesars, $500 checks are pink, $1,000 checks are yellow and $5,000 checks are brown (they're called chocolates)." Sept. 14, 2004

How does a table game player go about getting comped?

First, get a player card, the same kind that goes in the slot machines, from the Player's Club desk. Then, when you sit down at a table game, take out your player card and place it next to your cash when you buy chips. The dealer will alert the pit manager that you have a player card and he will start to rate you based on your average bet, length of play, and sometimes your skill level. Sept. 14, 2004

Love your site! I enjoy casino gambling but generally can only afford a small bankroll (less than $100 per session). What game would you recommend to maximize the life of my bankroll and chances for a winning session?

Thanks. Considering both the odds of winning and bankroll preservation, I think the choice comes down to blackjack (which favors winning) and pai gow poker (which favors bankroll preservation). If you can find a $5 table in either game I would go with blackjack. If the minimums are $10 then I would go with pai gow poker. July 28, 2004

There is a story today about a British man who will bet his life savings on one roulette roll. My friend and I have been debating about what the best casino bet is for this type of wager. If you can only place one bet, and you wish to maximize your odds, what is the best game to play and what is the best bet?

First, let me say this guy was a fool. He bet $138,000 on a normal American roulette wheel with two zeros and a house edge of 5.26%. This amounted to an expected loss of $7,263. However, had he taken a 10 minute ride to the Bellagio, Mirage, or Aladdin he could have made the bet on a single zero wheel which follows the European rule of giving half an even money bet back if the ball lands in zero. He planned to make an even money bet anyway. So at these wheels, with full European rules, his house edge would have been only 1.35%, for an expected loss of only $1,865.

To answer your question, if forced to make just one even money type bet, I would have chosen the banker bet in baccarat with a house edge of 1.06%. May 5, 2004

Good Day. May I say that I have thoroughly enjoyed looking through your web site. Can the house advantage on any particular game be affected by the Limit/Maximum being too high (i.e. over $5000 on the pair plus), especially with three card poker?

Best regards, John (London, England)

Thank you. No, the house edge is not affected by the table minimum and maximum. The greater the spread between minimum and maximum bet, the greater the volatility. But in the long run, results will keep getting closer to the house edge. Some people incorrectly believe that setting a maximum bet increases the house edge, but it does not. March 6, 2004

You have a very good site but I think it puts too much of a priority on minimizing the house edge and not enough on minimizing volatility. Don't you think the player is trying to minimize both? Perhaps you should put more of an emphasis on bankroll longevity.

While you may like a low-volatility game, the next guy may like a high-volatility game. I do indicate the standard deviation of most games here but that is about as far as I care to go with this angle. I believe the gambler should pick his game partially according to its volatility but once playing always play by the proper strategy and never hedge your bets. Feb. 13, 2004

For whatever reason suppose I do not wish to immediately cash in casino chips won in a major casino in LV. Can I walk across the street (or next door) to another major casino and put my chips in play (or cash them in) there? If such chip "travelability" is permitted at all, would it be limited to major properties owned by the same corporation such as Park Place or MGM Properties? Please comment when convenient. Thank you.

Most casinos accept an exchange of chips from other casinos in the same locality, even if the casino is a direct competitor. For example, if you walked a $100 Mirage chip to the Venetian and politely asked, at a table, to exchange it for Venetian chips, I think they would allow it. Do not try to bet a foreign chip without asking. I once did that in Atlantic City with a $5 chip and although I got away with it when the dealer finally noticed a foreign chip in his tray, he was clearly annoyed. Fortunately, it was a full table so nobody could pin the blame on me ;-). Jan. 20, 2004

I read your review of casinos and want to try Club Dice. Regarding the terms on their website, they mention bonus will be deduct from the account once you make the cash-in even you fulfill the wager requirement. I wonder then what is the meaning of this bonus?

This is what is called a "sticky bonus" and is not confined to Internet casinos. When I went to Germany I had to pay 20 Duetchmarks to get in. However, if I purchased 100 Duetchmarks in chips they gave me a free 20 in sticky chips. A sticky bonus or sticky chip is one that can never be cashed out. However, if you bet it and win, the winnings are real money. The way to get rid of sticky chips is to keep betting them until you lose them. In the case of Internet casinos you will need to keep cashing out winnings and always leave the sticky bonus in your account, then go back and play again.

Recently at the Miami Beach casino I did a 100% promotion for a $1,000 deposit. Eventually I lost $1,650 and tried to cash out my last $350. They declined it, stating in effect that the $1,000 bonus was sticky. So I played more and kept cashing out when my balance was significantly above $1,000. In the end I cashed out 7 or 8 times for a total of $4,700.

In the long run sticky bonuses just force the player to bet more. The expected value of a sticky bonus is close to 100% less 2 times the house edge in even money based games. Nov. 19, 2003

I have one simple question. I know you are the wizard of odds but I need help. I play Craps and Texas Hold'em in the casinos. I feel I could be an intimidating force (THUS RAISING MY ODDS OF WINNING) if I could just figure out how to shuffle my poker chips. I have practiced but just can't get it. I was hoping you could point me in a direction to learn this. Thank you for your time. - Joseph

You asked the right person! I'm quite good at shuffling poker chips. Unfortunately, I don't often get to show it off because when I do play with chips it is usually counting cards or hole card reading, and in either case I don't want to look like a pro. Anyway, start with a stack of 10 chips. Then cut them in half, putting two 5 stack chips side by side. Think of the two stacks as an 8. Put the 8 at about a 45 degree angle to your plane of symmetry. Put your thumb on the bottom of the 8, your index finger where the two stacks come together, and the other 3 fingers at the top of the 8. All five fingers should be barely touching the table. Then using your index finger gently lift both stacks while the other four fingers gently push the stacks together. After your index finger is about a quarter inch from the bottom of the table, quickly move it away and keep pushing the stacks together with your other four fingers. It takes practice. I would recommend getting 10 nice clay chips and practicing at home or work. During commercials or whenever you have a minute to spare you can work on it. Before you know it you you'll be riffling chips like a pro and casting fear in your fellow poker players. Aug. 25, 2003

Which are the most and least volatile games?

Pai gow poker is the least volatile and, on average, keno is the most. July 14, 2003

Hi, I just have a general question. It is about the Poker Table Games. Why is it that almost every casino carries "Let it Ride", "Caribbean Stud Poker", and "3 card poker"? Some of those other Poker games I was reading about on your website sound cool, but they aren't around at the Atlantic City locations. Is it because the above games are more popular, or just because the casino makes more money on them? Just wondering since Bally's and Caesars in Atlantic City are testing the Boston 5 Poker game, and I like that game the best so far. i hope they keep it there. It is nice when the dealer doesn't have to qualify (the reason why I try to avoid Caribbean stud poker) Thanks for your time, Joe

Ultimately, the games that you see in the casinos are the ones that make the most money for the casino. For a game to make money the players have to like it. So these games you mention are what players find the most fun. It also helps that they are owned by big gaming companies that have the resources to get them out there in the first place. March 7, 2003

What advantage if any does the house have when using a six spot layout verses a 7 spot layout? - Steven Ritondo from Margate, USA

They can deal more hands per hour in a 7-spot game. However, the advantage per hand is the same. Personally, I hate the 7-spot tables. Jan. 11, 2003

Does shorter play, the number of hands not time increase my odds over the house edge? Playing 750 or under hands as opposed to playing over 2000 on a single visit. - Shuck Strain from Las Vegas, USA

No, the number of hands does not affect the house edge. The amount you can expect to lose is the product of the house edge, average bet size, and number of bets. Sept. 24, 2002

As I have little experience of casinos and do not think I can memorize all the finer points of the information your site offers, what would you recommend I play on my forthcoming trip to Las Vegas? - Alastair from London, UK

I'd recommend craps or baccarat. In craps, stick to the line bets and the odds. In baccarat, bet on the banker every time. Sept. 24, 2002

I play in a casino that offers 'match plays' it is a coupon that if I bet $5 with the coupon and win I get paid $10. If I have 2 coupons per 3 hour playing time and a bankroll of $100 how much of an advantage do I derive from playing them as opposed to going to another casino that does not offer them to the player? - Edward Eastley from Clearwater, USA

Match play chips or coupons have an expected value of almost 50% of face value if used in blackjack or craps. If you get 2 $5 coupons for 3 hours of play you can expect to lose about $6 playing $5/hand basic strategy blackjack, but gain $5 from the match plays. So, all other things being equal I would play where they give out the match plays. Aug. 11, 2002

Please explain "playing perfectly". - Glen Roya

Playing perfectly means the same thing as using an optimal strategy. In other words, making perfect use of the information available to maximize the expected outcome of the bet. June 18, 2002

What table game has the best odds for winning and is user friendly for a novice gambler? Thanks in advance. - Dave Holcomb from Port St. Lucie, USA

For the person with no casino gambling experience who puts an emphasis on something easy to play, I would start with baccarat. Just bet on the banker every time. Nov. 11, 2001

What is the best game to use a match play coupon on? - Rob Savickis

First, let's define a match play coupon for those who don't know. This is something often found in casino fun books. If the player accompanies a match play coupon with a real even money wager then the match play will be converted to a like amount of cash if the player wins. For example, if the player has a $5 match play and uses it along with a $5 bet on red in roulette, then if the player wins his $5 will win $5 and his match play will be converted to $5. Whether the player wins or loses he will lose the match play coupon. In the event of a push, as can happen in craps or blackjack, the player gets to keep the match play coupon. If the player gets a blackjack or wins after a double or split in blackjack then the match play still only gets converted to it's face value with nothing extra. Blackjack is not really an even money bet but you may generally still use it in that game. Roughly speaking, a match play coupon has a value of a little less than half of its face value, because the probability of winning is always less than half.

The two strongest contenders to use the match play are blackjack and the don't pass in craps. Let's let p be the probability of a win and q be the probability of a loss. In both cases let's consider a $5 match play.

Let's look at blackjack first. From my blackjack appendix 7 we know that the probability of a tie is 8.79%. The expected number of hands to be dealt before the bet is resolved is 1+.0879/(1-.0879) = 1.0964 (I won't get into the proof of this). Let's assume a house edge of 0.41%. So the player can expect to give up $5 * 0.0041 * 1.0964 = 2.25 cents due to the house edge. We also know from my blackjack appendix 7 that the probability of any win is 43.32%. The probability of a win before a loss is p/(p+q) = .4332/(1-.0879) = .4749. So the ultimate value of the match play in blackjack is $5 * .4749 - $.0225 = $2.35.

Now let's look at the don't pass bet. My craps section will tell you the house edge is 3/220 = 1.36%. The probability of a push is 1/36 = 2.78%. The expected number of don't pass bets made before the match play is resolved is 1+(1/36)/(35/36) = 36/35 = 1.0286. So the expected loss due to the house edge is $5 * 1.0286 * 1.36% = 7.01 cents. My craps appendix shows the probability of a win on the don't pass to be 2,847/5,940 =~ 47.93%. So, the probability of a win before a loss is .4793/(1-0.278) = 49.30%. Thus the value of the match play on the don't pass bet is $5*.4930 - .0701 = $2.39!

So, to conclude, it is better (by 4 cents) to use a match play on the don't pass than in blackjack on a $5 mach play. The reason for this is the lower probability of an actual win in blackjack. Remember in blackjack you can still get 3-2 on a blackjack as well the possibility to double and split, which results in an overall better bet, the match play not withstanding. Oct. 30, 2001

How would I go about getting a free room at Las Vegas on my first visit? - Dan from San Lorenzo, USA

First you need to get a player card. Then you have to present it to the pit manager when you play a table game. This is not my area of expertise but to get a free room you probably need to bet at least $50-$100 a hand at least four hours a day for every day you stay there. This should get you free food and beverages as well. The better the place, the bigger the bet size they will expect. May 1, 2001

What is the casino average hold for craps? - Mary from Rising Sun, USA

I don't know the hold for any game. This is affected by lots of factors, most of which the mathematician has no way of knowing.

First of all, I think your web site is great and want to thank you for all this great, solid information. My question is this: blackjack tables have a maximum bet limit that more than increases when you move up from the five dollar table to the ten etc. I suppose this is to discourage larger stakes gamblers from playing at lower stakes tables but how do they calculate these limits? I notice that they are different at different casinos. Also, on you chart of the house edge, it would be great to see a comparison of house edge for a blackjack player using Basic Strategy vs. one who is counting cards. Thanks again for the great work. - Michael Gorman from Santa Cruz, USA

You're welcome! I have wondered this myself about table maximums. Personally, I have asked several people in the business and have yet to get an answer that didn't sound like the person was making it up off the top of their heads. That said, I'm not exactly sure either. I think it is, as you said, to corral the best players in one area. How the limits are calculated, I do not know. So far, I have avoided touching on card counting in depth on my site. That is a very hard and endless subject. May 1, 2001

I understand the calculations made to determine the house advantage for the various games. My question is most applicable to the games with a large payout (for example, a royal flush in Let It Ride). Would it not be more reasonable to calculate the "house advantage" with the royal flush excluded? While hitting the royal is possible, it is extremely unlikely for the average player. Would this modified house advantage be more applicable to the average player? Thanks for the great site. - Bill from Corpus Christi, USA

You make a good point. In terms of what to expect in the short run, you should ignore the highest hands. I know video poker players sometimes disregard royal flushes when determining their short-term expectations. However, as a mathematical purist, I can't help but consider every possible outcome, regardless of how unlikely it may be. March 11, 2001

Is Binion's Horseshoe the only casino that will let you win millions without being asked to leave? Why would a casino ask someone to leave if they are not cheating? Does a casino ever ask someone to leave the table at a game like roulette where they believe no one can beat it? - Jim Dugan from Winona, Minnesota

No casino that had any sense would ask someone to leave just for getting lucky. Most would try hard to keep them from leaving and entice them back once they returned home. Perhaps what you're referring to is that Binion's Horseshoe is the only casino that accepts extremely large wagers, in the neighborhood of a million dollars. Jan. 20, 2001

Do the odds at table games change when the number of players change? In other words, if there are more hands dealt, do the odds change? If not, is there anything at all salient (odds wise) about the number of players partaking in a particular game? This will settle a "bet". - Steve Meredith of Detroit, USA

No, the odds do not change depending on the number of players. Nov. 4, 2000

Some casinos offer "comps" for different levels of action. I was wondering if there was a way of approximating how much I would have to wager to earn these bonuses. For example what would I need to risk to "play" $7000, or some other figure? Thank you. ñ Steve from New York, USA

The pit manager determines your total action by the product of your average bet size, total number of hours played, and number of hands played per hour. I'm not sure what figure they use for the number of hands played per hour but it is a fixed number for any given game. I've heard that 100 hands per hour in blackjack is about the right number. If you vary your bet size, try to bet more when the pit manager is watching, this will cause him to overestimate your average bet.

See also questions I've answered about dealer errors and misdeals.

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