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Reason #4 why the Wizard likes Bodog:
One-stop shopping
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No popups, no download, no registration, no B.S., just the game. |
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Home • What's New • Advice & Strategy • Ask the Wizard • Gambling online • Play for Fun |
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I was playing craps at Harrah's in St Louis, and noticed they have
added place bet positions for the 2, 3, 11, and 12 to the table. I don't remember what they paid. Do you know the odds for these bets? Thanks. — Ron from Collinsville , Il
Crapless Craps offers those two bets too. There is one way to roll a 2, and six ways to roll a 7, so the probability of winning a place bet on the 2 is 1/7. Same probability is the same for the 12. As explained in the baccarat question, if the probability of something is p, then fair odds are (1/p)-1 to 1. In this case fair odds would be 6 to 1. The house edge can be expressed as (t-a)/(t+1), where t is the true odds, and a is the actual odds. In Crapless Craps the place bet on the 2 and 12 pays 11 to 2. Using this formula, the house edge on the 2 and 12 is (6-5.5)/(6+1) = 0.5/7 = 7.14%.
In Crapless Craps the 3 and 11 pay 11 to 4. Using the same formula, t=3, and a=2.75, so the house edge is 0.25/4 = 6.25%. May 26, 2008
What would be the house edge of a pass and don’t pass bet after a point is established? – A.B. from Zion, IL
After a pass bet, on a point of 4 or 10, the house edge swings to 33.33%. On a 5 or 9, it is 20%, and on a 6 or 8, it is 9.09%. The player has these same advantages on a don’t pass bet, once a point has been established. January 13, 2008
What is the house edge of the “anything but seven” strategy in craps? Under this strategy, after a point is rolled, the player bets the field and places the 5, 6, and 8, unless the point is already one of those numbers. Also, what is the house edge of the “anything but the point” strategy, in which the player does the same thing after a don’t pass bet? – Jason from Murrieta
According to my calculations, the “anything but the point” strategy will have a loss of 0.11988 units per pass bet resolved. The expected amount bet, counting only resolved bets, is 5.09865 units. So, defining the house edge as the ratio of expected loss to total bets resolved, it is 2.351%. Under the “anything but the point” strategy, the house edge is 9.19394/5.09865 = 2.341%, which includes the push on 12 as a resolved bet. January 13, 2008
Which casinos in Las Vegas gives the best odds on Craps. - Wayne from Honolulu
The Casino Royale, which offers 100x odds. For complete playing conditions in Vegas please see my new Vegas craps directory.
March 27, 2006
How does the casino practice of calling established come bet odds "off" during the "come out" roll affect the house advantage, how is that computed, and how is the house advantage affected by leaving the odds on come bets turned on during come out rolls? Good question. For those who don't understand the question, unless otherwise requested, odds on come out bets are not active on come out rolls. So if the player rolls a seven on a come out roll any come bets will lose and odds on come bets will be returned. Likewise if the player's point on the come bet is rolled on the come out roll the come bet will win but the odds will push. The answer depends on how we define the house edge. If we define it as expected loss to total bets made then turning the odds off would not matter. This is because the player is still betting the odds and it still counts as a bet even if it is returned as a push. However if you define the house edge as expected loss to bets resolved then turning the odds off on a come out roll does indeed increase the house edge. I wrote a computer simulation to determine this effect. Assuming the player takes fives times odds then turning the odds off on come out rolls increases the ratio of losses to total bets resolved from 0.326% to 0.377%, or an increase of 0.051%. So if you want to maximize your return on bets resolved then leave those come odds turned on. Dec. 2, 2003 I do not understand why you should lay the odds on the don't pass or don't come bets. It seems that you have already dodged the 7 and ll bullet, so the bet is now in your favor. Why would you dilute a bet that is already heavily in your favor with a large (relative speaking)bet at true odds? It seems that you are working in the houses favor by reducing the house edge on the entire bet. I understand that taking the odds on the pass side reduces the overall house edge, however I don't understand how laying the odds can reduce the house edge on the don't side. I'm very curious? By the way, I discussed this with several casino bosses and dealers yesterday and they all had opinions, but not reasons for these opinions. Thanks for your time. - Mike Hill Let's say you have a $10 don't pass bet and the point is a 4. You have a 2/3 chance of winning the bet, so the expected value is (2/3)*$10 + (1/3)*-$10 =$ 10/3 = $3.33. Now consider adding a $40 odds bet on top of it. Now you have a 2/3 chance of winning $30 and a 1/3 chance of losing $50. The expected value of both bets combined is (2/3)*$30 + (1/3)*-$50 = $10/3 = $3.33. So either way your expected gain is 3 dollars and 33 cents. With the don't pass alone the player edge is $3.33/$10 = 33.33%. With the don't pass and odds the player edge is $3.33/$50 = 6.67%. So, yes, the player edge as a percentage drops by making the odds bet. However that player edge is effective over more money. The way I think gamblers should view the house edge is as the price to pay for entertainment. If you want to pay as little as possible then taking or laying the odds is getting entertainment for free. May 5, 2003 Michael, saw you on the travel channel from Vegas the other day giving your expert advice regarding house advantage. Good job. Didn't realize you were that young. I was playing craps at the new Seneca/Niagara casino and instructed the dealer to have the odds working for a don't come bet on the come out roll. He advised the odds are always working for that bet. Is he correct? - Gordon from Niagara Falls Thanks for the kind words on my Travel Channel appearance. For those of you who missed it the show was titled Sucker Bets. The dealer was right. In general bets are turned off on a come out roll in which a seven would cause the player to lose. I guess they don't want some players to sour the mood of the table by rooting against a 7 on the come out roll. Since a 7 would cause the odds on the don't pass to win they are left on. Feb. 4, 2003 The Wizard said: "The double up feature [in video poker] is truly fair and has no house edge. This is one of the few times I say you can go either way and just do what you want." The same, of course, is true of true odds bets at craps. So, why promote taking odds at craps and not promote doubling up? Just as you can drop the house edge to essentially nothing at craps, you can do the same thing at video poker or blackjack...My own reasoning is that cutting cards against the casino for fair stakes is just boring, but I'd be interested in your opinion. - Jonathan Falk from New York City You are of course quoting me from my March 24 column. This is a good and fair question. I should point out that taking or laying the odds in craps does not help the player to win more, only to bet more at no additional expense. The reason I encourage craps players to bet on the odds is that it is the cheapest bet on the table and is truly a craps bet. All odds, as well as place, buy, and lay bets win if one number is thrown before another. This is a very fundamental aspect of the game. It only makes sense for the player to make the bet with the lowest house edge. Refusing the odds in craps to bet on something else instead is like refusing a free coffee refill in a restaurant and instead buying another cup. Are the craps probability numbers with the odds taken 100% reliable. Also is the gaming industry your full time profession, and do you visit Atlantic City often? Also, how do you simulate billions and billions of hands, spins, and rolls. Is it computer generated and if so with which software? - DB from New York, USA Well, anyone can make a mistake but craps is an easy game to analyze mathematically so I would be very confident my odds on craps are right. Yes, gambling in one way or another is my full time self-employed profession. I have been to Atlantic City many times in the last few years but two months ago I moved to Las Vegas. So I'm afraid I wouldn't be gracing Atlantic City with my presence much any longer. I prefer to a combinatorial approach as opposed to random simulations whenever I can. Either way I roll my own software with Visual C++. That comes with a random number generator, which I seed with the time every few minutes. April 15, 2001 What are your casino choices in AC for craps and Spanish 21? When you mention that it is wise to take full odds on a bet while playing craps, do you mean to match your bet with an equal odds bet, or to make the highest allowed odds bet along with your bet (ex: at a table with 10x max odds place a $1 bet with a $1 free odds bet, or a $1 bet with a $10 free odds bet). I'm a little confused on that. I love your site, and honestly see it as "a diamond in the rough" among gambling advice web sites. Personally, I like to know what the mathematical odds are when it comes to wagering my hard earned money! Thanks in advance for answering my questions! - Dave Palmer from Roanoke, Virginia Thanks for the compliment. The Spanish 21 rules are probably the same across Atlantic City. I only know of two that have the game, the Tropicana and the Claridge, but there could be others by now. If I'm not mistaken the best craps game is at the Sands, which offers 5X odds. When I say to take the maximum odds I mean bet the maximum allowed on the odds. Or $10 after a $1 line bet, to use your example. Keep in mind you won't win more money by taking the odds, you just get to bet more without losing more in the long run. April 15, 2001 What is the calculation of the house edge for a put bet on the pass line(after the come out roll and the point is established) with full odds (eg. 2x, 10x, 100x) for the 6&8, 7&9, 4&10 and any combination there of? I became very curious after I saw this bet allowed at Binions-LV last time I was in town. Jim Mason Since you asked I added information about the put bet in my craps section. That should tell you what you want to know. Oct. 15, 2000 Should you leave your odds 'off' or turn them 'on' for a new pass line roll? ñ K Garris from Louisville, USA You should leave them on. It is best to have as much on the odds as possible. Turning the odds off is like temporarily removing the odds bet. Oct. 5, 2000 Q: What is the house advantage on put bets with 20 times odds. Should the house allow put bets at these odds, for example someone could take $1000 with $20,000 on every number. Could you explain this to me? Thanks, Great site. ñ Bry from Chesterton, Indiana A: For other readers let me explain that a put bet is making a pass or come bet after a point has already been established. The player may choose the point to be established on the put bet. While the player can make an odds bet immediately on top of the put bet the opportunity to win on the initial roll is lost. The effect is the same as making a place bet or buying odds but the house edge is different depending on the multiple of odds allowed. In the case of 20 times odds the house edge of the put bet on the 4 and 10 is 1.59%, on the 5 and 9 is 0.95%, and on the 6 and 8 is 0.43%. At this high level of odds allowed (which is much greater than the norm) all put bets are better than the corresponding place or buy bets. This option should never be taken at a casino that offers less than 5 times odds. At 5 times odds exactly the put bet on the 6 and 8 is slightly better than the place bet. At 10 times odds or greater all put bets become better than their corresponding place or buy bets. I shall add something to my craps section about the put bet, thanks for the idea. July 9, 2000 Q: I have heard it said that with one come bet a player should call off the odds on a come out roll, but with two or more the player should leave them on. The rational is that with two or more on the odds of rolling one of the come points is greater than rolling a 7, but with one bet the player is more likely to win than lose. - SD from San Francisco, California A: The player should always leave the odds on regardless of how many come bets are active. When considering the options looking at the probability of winning alone is not enough. Yes, with one come bet the odds of losing the come bet are greater than winning, however the potential win is greater than potential loss. The reason the player should always leave the odds on are because it is a bet with zero house edge. By turning the odds off the player is making the overall game more heavily weighted towards the bets with a house edge, thus increasing the overall ratio of the expected loss to the total amount bet. June 10, 2000 Q: Let me begin by saying that of all the gambling related sites, The Wizard of Odds is by far the best. My question has to do with a betting strategy for craps, with what some people have termed variance. As you state in your 10 commandments, the house has an edge in the long term, but there are short term fluctuations. A casino I played at had the 3,4,5 odds system where you were allowed 3x on the 4 and 10, 4x on the 5 and 9 and 5 x on the 6 and 8. I feel that with this "system" of placing odds, you reduce the fluctuations (with respect to standard 5x odds on all numbers) in your bankroll, and chage the distribution of net gain/loss per session, ie you would produce a sharper peak located slightly more to the loss side than with 5x odds. Is this so, and could you put some numbers to it? - Ted from ? A: That is clever of the casino, regardless of what point is established if the player can win six times the pass line bet on the odds. So in just one bet there is a 9.26% chance of losing 6 units, a 6.67% chance of losing 5 units, a 4.55% chance of losing 4 units, an 11.11% chance of losing 1 unit, a 22.22% chance of winning 1 unit, and a 13.54% chance of winning 7 units. This is a pretty skewed distribution but not as skewed if they allowed 5X on all odds bets. So yes the variance would be less. However over many bets the possible final outcome will still be a random variable that could fall anywhere in a bell curve shape according to the central limit theorem. April 15, 2000
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